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Podcasts - THE LEAGUE OF EXTREMELY ORDINARY GENTLEMEN: Vol. 7. Issue 28: Iron Women

Not just RATHER heated talk about what defines a strong (and I mean STRONG) female character in entertainment, but more Intergalactic Nemesis madness and ... well..okay, so we lost the first part...gorram OS upgrade... but you still get a full-on LEOG ep...Check it...

Tags: leog, leon, cyrus, podcast, spill, spill.com, comics, tv, movies, league of extremely ordinary gentlemen, intergalactic nemesis

138 Comments for THE LEAGUE OF EXTREMELY ORDINARY GENTLEMEN: V...

March 11, 2012 at 2:06 AM, cat said ...

Dollhouse/Echo should have been thrown into the mix of those false empowerment icons.
March 11, 2012 at 12:24 AM, cat said ...

Love that Kelly chose to go after two things Cyrus loves, Buffy and The Fifth Element. Kind of hilarious.
March 08, 2012 at 2:21 PM, Gift of the Magi said ...

@Fungusmonkey: THANK YOU! JESUS I was almost foaming at the mouth at how CRAP they made Adler. I was actually hoping they DID kill her at the end of that episode....
March 08, 2012 at 2:20 PM, Gift of the Magi said ...

If you folks go to St. Louis in July, LET ME KNOW! I can help set you up and maybe even get you a few free homecooked meals.
March 06, 2012 at 11:33 AM, said ...

Kelly is certainly loud when she is wrong.
March 06, 2012 at 6:18 AM, said ...

@Fungusmonkey - On second thought, you're right. I guess I was mostly comparing her to the movie series Adler, who's just a damsel in distress. Holmes respects her so much in the series because she is the first person to ever outsmart him. It almost seems like people are scared to show her that way anymore. I guess I'm gonna have to limit my respect for her to just the short story :/

I feel like that's what they're doing to Catwoman (who's basically Irene Adler), which is sad. Traditionally, she does use her sexuality, but she uses it intelligently without degrading herself, and she's genuinely smart and funny.
March 06, 2012 at 3:40 AM, Fungusmonkey said ...

@Quicksandbuddy - I would agree with you on most of your choices, except for Irene Adler from Sherlock. One of the many things I didn't like about the latest series was the fact that they changed Adler from the strong female character to an almost run-of-the-mill femme fatale. In the episode, she doesn't really "outwit" anyone - she simply uses her sexuality to lure them into compromising positions and then blackmail them with the evidence. The line "you know [person]?" "I know what he likes." repeated that outlook repeatedly - she doesn't have to be outwit them with her mind, she just has to seduce them with her body. Even the few times that she *seems* to be ahead of the game, she later admits that it was Moriarty's plan the whole time and she "couldn't have done it without him". She seems to be beholden to either Moriarty or Sherlock the entire episode, so much so that they even included the typical "shining knight coming to her rescue" scene at the end. It was one of the many issues I had - that they took what was supposed to be an extremely street smart con-woman who could best men with her mind (so much so that Sherlock gave her the respect of calling her "THE woman") and turned her into a vamped up femme fatale because sex sells in modern day television (cue phone text message moan). What's really terrible is that - were the episode to be slightly changed to highlight her intellect instead of her body - she could have walked that very delicate line and stayed intact as a strong female character.
March 06, 2012 at 2:18 AM, Santos said ...

"A good female character is one who looks out for herself and others and who won't take anybody's shit."

I agree, Quicksandbuddy.
March 06, 2012 at 1:50 AM, said ...

Lisbeth Salander, Catwoman (specifically from the pre-reboot comics), Irene Adler (from Scandal in Bohemia and Sherlock), Peggy Carter (from the Captain America movie), Lady Grantham, Anna, and Sybil (Downton Abbey), and Gina Carano's character in Haywire are some of my favorite fictional female characters. Basically, if a woman isn't over-sexualized or basically useless (Scarlett from G.I. Joe), I'm usually a fan. I love powerful female characters who can put anyone, male or female, in their place.

I think when people think of "strong women" they think of the type that tries to prove that they're better than men. I hate that type. A good female character is one who looks out for herself and others and who won't take anybody's shit.
March 05, 2012 at 11:47 PM, Santos said ...

I watched Rebecca last night and that was a great example of a very weak female character. Joane Fontaine was taking everyone's crap so easily throughout that movie that I quickly lost sympathy for her.
March 05, 2012 at 11:35 PM, randy said ...

@Daedalus Claran

I didn't mind the serious conversation about what defines Iron Women, I agree we need that so we can better understand them.My issue was more how they focused so much on the sexualzing of women, because Kelly and Cyrus were not agreeing on that matter much, so it became the main focus of the topic instead of one element to what makes an iron lady.

If you want more serious LEOG's, that is fine and I understand, but I don't think that by itself makes the episode better.. I give them credit when they can balance heavy arguments with comedy, it's the talent the LEOG had that makes the podcast so special, instead of being really serious or really comedic.To me, this episode did not find that common balance and it was an awkward listen for me.
March 05, 2012 at 7:42 PM, said ...

For me my favorite iron ladies are Jack from mass effect and Lisbeth Salander from Girl with a Dragon Tattoo. Also nobody said that one of the reason that Brienne loves Renly is because Renly is the only person who is actually kind to her.
March 05, 2012 at 4:37 PM, Devane! said ...

on the subject of mass effect and iron women you gotta mention the justicar Samara I mean she's just all round bad ass just look at her introduction plus shes one of the few people in mass effect that you cant romantically pursue because she's so focused on her mission
March 05, 2012 at 3:01 AM, Harris said ...

Is it hard being afraid of female sexuality, Brandon?
March 05, 2012 at 3:00 AM, LB70145 said ...

Wow... Cyrus and Kelly should not be allowed to be on mic at the same time. I felt like daddy slapped mommy at the dinner table several times throughout the podcast. The discussion turned to argument too many times. Granted, this was entertaining. I am very surprised to how aggressive this episode was. Great episode none the less.
March 05, 2012 at 1:04 AM, Cyrus said ...

I'm sure your allegory has settled the anger about this inequality for women everywhere, Brandon.
March 05, 2012 at 12:52 AM, said ...

to cyrus about the slut thing everyone likes a key that opens every lock but no one likes a lock that opens for every key
March 04, 2012 at 11:51 PM, Ciarán said ...

@ Yodaap, randy, et al. How can you have a discussion on examples of Iron Women without an accurate definition of what makes an Iron Woman? The discussion they had was right at the heart of the matter of strong female characters. Which ones are better/worse would be obvious if a clear definition were reached. And if you just wanted a list of tough/strong female characters, maybe with a poll from best to worst, I think the episode would've been all the poorer for it. It's good to get a serious discussion/debate going, instead of the usual racist joke, racist joke, pun, talk over Cat's historical point, Batman, racist joke nice chat about topic, which we usually get.

@Neeeen I agree with some of the examples you give (the ones that I recognise anyway) except for your last two points. Shakespeare wrote some strong female characters, some smarter than the males in his plays, true. However, you gloss over the fact that many are under the thumb of male characters, sometimes to the point of subservience, and others almost all the others are clearly evil, and get their due comeuppance for defying the social order and acting out. Lady Macbeth goes mad and throws herself off a tower. The patriarch is restored. Secondly the problem isn't that sexuality is used by female characters, but rather that that's constantly the first port of call in a lot of fiction. Take the film Aladdin from the mid 90s. In the end Jasmine distracts Jafar, how? By pretending she's going to sleep with him. She goes straight for the sex and succeeds. Attacking him doesn't, insulting him doesn't, talking to him doesn't, but her acting like she's up for it does. The implication is that she's better at it than the rest. It is a tool, yes, but its recurrence in the vast majority of female characters means that its use is more a reflection of laziness, or possibly malice, on behalf of the writer. That's a problem worth addressing.

Great show lads and ladies. More Kelly. More seriousness too, just to break things up from time to time and to provide some meaty ideas to chew over after the podcast is done.
March 04, 2012 at 8:55 PM, Brutuxan said ...

@Professor Gascan, Mark Meer, the guy also did voices for the Vorcha and some of the Krogan.
March 04, 2012 at 8:44 PM, said ...

Does anybody even know offhand who Captain Shepard's male voice actor is? I just looked him up on IMDB and it's like, "so you have this grand sci-fi adventure you're making, and instead of having the male character be played by a veteran voice actor on par with Jennifer Hale, you just pick some jerkoff who's basically only done background NPCs in other games?"
March 04, 2012 at 6:47 PM, Anita L Thomas said ...

Starbuck,from Battlestar

The commander in RED PLANET and her ship Lucille, Barbwire, Samius,

Bre in Game of Thrones IS a Knight, Ya she was made a Knight by Barathon and her love for him is a driving factor but she was also totally into all the code of the Knight. Airia is totally kick ass.

Bullshit Lielue is kick ass

Zhaan and Aerynr Sun, in Farscape.

Any Woman that doesn't cower in the corner and take it.

Jamie Curtis in Halloween, Ripely In ALL the Alien Moves and Nuet for that matter , NO SEX involved.

I totally loved Barbara in the remake of Night of the Living Dead Loved Her.

Betty Page, Don't Fuck with her. Wow the ladies in this pod cast really pissed me off

When a Woman uses her sexuality It's a tool and she is really using her brain.

Shakespeare Wrote this the strongest Female characters of anybody. They are sssssooo much smarter than the males!
March 04, 2012 at 6:31 PM, said ...
March 04, 2012 at 5:27 PM, Gary said ...
March 04, 2012 at 5:19 PM, Jef said ...

AMAZING EPISODE OH MY JOSS! LONG LIVE THE LEAGUE!
March 04, 2012 at 11:35 AM, said ...

I am sorry but I wouldnt define Indira Ghandi as a "good" leader, she did some bad things as well!

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