Podcasts -  THE LEAGUE OF EXTREMELY ORDINARY GENTLEMEN: Volume 8, Issue 15: Death...

Not to get all doom and gloom on you, but sometimes life throws you a curveball. But don't worry, this is the LEOG and it means we find a way to make even talking about death fun...like discussing the best, worst, and most gruesome character deaths from movies, tv, and comics. Add to that a spoileriffic third section with a full discussion on season 1 of "Legend of Korra" and season 2 of "Game of Thrones", and you've got a seriously fun LEOG.

Tags:  leog, leon, cyrus, podcast, spill, spill.com, comics, tv, movies, league of extremely ordinary gentlemen, death

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  October 21, 2012 at 6:30 PM, Kelly said ...

  Had to skip this because I hadn't seen Korra yet, now that I have, went and tracked this down. My thoughts:

  • I thought it had a slow start for the first few eps, I didn't care for the romance and there were a few things the characters did I thought was a bit dumb. For the love triangle, while I can imagine real teens acting like that, I didn't find it compelling. I'd get why they'd be attracted to each other, but we weren't shown enough of those two really connecting. And the way they had Bolin cry like that was more uncomfortable than funny or endearing, wish they'd given that character more dignity so I'd like him more. For me the humour in this show always had a weird awkwardness to it, even the first series.

  • Btw, Katara and Zuko never had any romantic interest in each other, that's just what fangirls wish happened. Other romantic interest Katara had was Jet.

  • Now that you mention it, it is pretty cool that they made Korra direct about her feelings instead of going for the cliched pining for him route.

  • Anyway, after the drama during the tournament was resolved and the plot started moving, I found myself really enjoying it. I was expecting worse of Mako and the romance because I heard so many people hating on it, but it really wasn't an issue to me after the first few episodes. One thing I wish they'd though out better was when Tarrlok proposed the curfew for all non-benders, Tenzin and the rest of the council should have pushed to have the curfew apply for everyone regardless of bending abilities. It would have been fair and Tarrlok wouldn't have been able to complain cuz it'd still fit the reasons he gave for imposing it.

  • Loved all the info they gave on the old characters' lives after the series, hoping for more next season.

  • Was worried Korra'd be too 2 dimensionally obnoxious and rash, but I'm glad there was more to her when she showed she does care for the rights of the non-benders and her duties as Avatar.

  • Speaking of which, that conflict with the Equalist brought up a really interesting point. Non-benders really are at the mercy of benders, Amon's terrorist tactics and his reasoning by saying all benders are bad is wrong, but the issue is still real. I'm glad they did acknowledge the complexity of the issue in that scene where Korra confronted Tarrlok instead of saying we should just root for Korra taking them down because she's the main character and they're the bad guys. Even if it wasn't as much as I wish, like show us if the government really is unfair to non-benders and if we should root for them or not. Hope they do more with it in book 2.

  • Amon's a pretty smart villain, I loved how they showed how he knew what he was doing and we got some good character exploration with Korra when she had to face how helpless she was. I got his motivation for doing it too.

  • I didn't mind Tarrlok not working with Amon, his own reasons made sense and it's more interesting this way, would have been too predictable if he was. The world isn't split to just 2 sides, just because someone's not on the side you're against doesn't mean they wont have their own agendas.

  • The boat scene is unclear. Maybe Tarrlok is just devastated after loosing his old life and his bending and wants to take Amon down with him. But Amon seemed aware about what Tarrlok would do, and if he just wanted to die with him why bother with the "lets find a new life together" pretense?

  • Lightning bending felt like it wasn't made a big enough deal about compared to the first series, only Azula and Ozai could do that. Even Zuko had trouble with it. But this might be a nitpick.

  • Am i the only one that noticed some of the backgrounds looked unfinished? The colours and perspective were fine, but it was really brush-y and didn't match the clean colours of the animated characters.

  • Liked the character designs more here than in the first series. The faces are drawn better and are more distinct and the costumes are more interesting.

  • When Korra lost her bending, she had to struggle with her self-worth and thought Mako had no reason to like her anymore. I wished she'd resolved those issues before getting her bending back, because those are good questions. Is all of her self-worth placed on being the Avatar? If it is, how would she carry on?

  • Looking forward to them exploring the mystical side of the world in book 2, that aspect felt missing in this season, which is not necessarily a bad thing if they intentionally wanted to set it up that way.

• July 10, 2012 at 3:53 AM, said ...

  @Noel Penn- well if you're going to be an ass, sure. They're not my words, and if you have a problem with it I'll message you the person's url.  Talk to them.

  I don't agree with all the statements, but they have a point.  Making excuses is just that, and does not justify sloppy execution.

  @Virgil

  - Totally agree, I sincerely hope that season 2 address it and it's not all laid to rest peaches and cream.

  - Hmm no.  The world is not ending, if Avatars can just instill power in any avatar, why not do that for Aang when peoples lives were on the line?  This is not life or death, it just really sucks for the benders.  But it's just another thing Korra got her way on, if Korra had all her bending still I don't think the resolve would have happened so fast. Also, it sends a terrible message to all the non-benders.

  -Amon's motives kinda of just poofed away when he was busted.  He lead a life behind this belief only to have it gone in seconds?  It's not impossible if something truly meaningful happened, like say his brother.  Oh wait, he just de-bended him and locked him in jail.  With that heartlessness, he would have moved on and started over again.  Why is now different, because Korra was there?  To be clear I liked their story, it just didn't fit with the over all story they had built.

  -Korra doesn't think a lot of things through, flawed character traits are good.  But not when they get away home free every time.

  -I agree, but the show sure made it seem that way.  If they bring it up and resolve it truly, that would be great.

  -Ha ha, definitely.  It never bothered me but when pointed out it did seem silly.

  -I think Tarrlock's story alone works fine.  Being smashed around by the avatar, being de-bended, losing your career, especially one as a political figure definitely explains his turn around.

  -Strongly disagree.  It's cliché for television now was well.  However I don't care so long as the relationship makes sense and the characters are likable.  For this show, for me, it fails on the latter.

  -I have issues with it, mainly because the chance at redemption was shinning in their faces.  But that scene completely worked for me in it's tragedy.

  -Because of magic, weeee.  Everything's rainbows for Korra.  She hasn't even look into spiritualism and by you saying she was suicidal means her self worth is based on power.  (But I don't know how you saw that as being suicidal, I just saw that as depressed.)  It's one thing to unlock the avatar state, another to control it.  I hope she doesn't have full control yet, because she does not have spirituality down even a fractional amount.  The whole deus ex machina of fixing Amon's damage is annoying, stupid, and sappy writing.  But solely by itself, I can believe her ability to heal the damage was more a reflex rather than absolute control.

  -Agreed, too many people on a mission makes it messy anyway.

  -Agreed.  The only thing that bothers me is that Bumi isn't a bender.  It just defies genetics.  But we know very well people don't need to be a bender to be amazing.

  
  
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  July 08, 2012 at 8:55 AM, Rory Manfrengensendenton said ...

• July 08, 2012 at 5:34 AM, Jack Martine said ...

  What Virgil said.

  And c'mon, you're complaining about something (Bumi) that isn't even introduced until the final 2 minutes of the show. And the fact that he's prolly gonna be one of the main side characters of season 2. Don't you think you're a little bit nitpicky?

  
  
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  July 06, 2012 at 1:24 PM, said ...

  @bloody black valentine: I agree with a few things the tumblr poster said. I did not have much emotional investment in ANYONE in Legend of Korra but I don't have emotional investment in the characters of 99% of the media I consume. For me, my emotional investment is achieved over time; I didn't really care about the Gaang until season three of Avatar:TLA.  

  I disagree with the poster on many things. <SPOILERS>

  -The conflict was not a lie. The strife already existed; Amon just capitalized on it. 

  -There was plenty Drama and suspense. Spirit bending is an entirely internal technique, I can buy that she could learn it from Aang. Korra was having identity issues AND was trying to COMMIT SUICIDE; Aang was not wrong about her being at her lowest point. 

  -Amon's motivation is exactly what it says on the Tin; the end of all bending. 

  -Philosophical conflict was portrayed. I agree that it has not been wrapped up yet. 

  -Korra was itching to confront Amon and it is within her character to not think things through. 

  -Asami and Mako's relationship is not resolved. 

  -I can't hate on the guy for having a back up plan. 

  -Tarrlock's thing is he could not shake off the indoctrination of his father. It's like how a child of an abusive parent often becomes abusive. 

  -It is and is not cliche. It is cliche in movies but almost unheard of in television; especially with another season coming up. 

  -He saw that they were initiating the same vicious cycle that created them. 

  -Korra can not only airbend now; she unlocked her spiritual side and has become a full avatar. 

  -They separated so each of them could have their own climatic scenes. Iroh's mission was to stop the ambush of Bumi's fleet. 

  -They just wanted to show who Bumi was and that he made there OK. 

• July 06, 2012 at 11:51 AM, said ...

  What is the name of the rapture book that they mention? Thanks.

  
  
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  July 06, 2012 at 6:18 AM, said ...

  Found this on tumblr.  I don't feel as passionately as this person, actually I have no strong passion for Korra at all.  My biggest problem with the show is everything moves so fast there is no emotional attachment.  The whole "it's shorter than Avatar" is just an excuse for poorer writing.  That isn't fair, movies have 1-2 hours to emotionally involve you with its characters. Korra had over 6 hours so what's its excuse?

  Why should I care about Korra or Mako?  The people I liked most were Lin, Tezin, Asami, and Bolin.  But the other two, they're horrible people who get away consequence all the time for their mistakes.  By mistakes I don't mean holding them to a level of perfection, but down to how disgustingly they treat their own friends.

  Not including the url name because the blog is a bit on the nsfw side.  I'm not being sensitive, but this is a public site and my comment so I'll do it how I want to.

  I do not look back on the Watchmen fondly, and it's really annoying you guys didn't bring up how horrible of a person Mako is.

  Korra Series Finale Thoughts (Spoilers) [So Pissed]

  This is the most mad I have ever been at any piece of media. This makes me look back fondly on Zack Snyder’s ‘Watchmen’. I can’t believe I feel this much fury at a fucking cartoon. Spoilers and angry dissection after the jump.

  -The whole bloody conflict of the entire series was a fucking lie, why? What’s the point after all this then? No class conflict, no conflict between nature vs technology, no struggle between the spirit world and the physical one. Just a wild plot twist out of nowhere that couldn’t really be predicted, then the good guys punch some dudes and everything is solved.

  -EVERY CONFLICT IS RESOLVED WITH ANY DRAMA OR SUSPENSE, what the fuck. Korra is healed completely because MAGIC. Lin is healed because MAGIC. Korra and Mako can love each other because Korra is magically restored; she struggled with the torment of identity issues for about five minutes before MAGIC, got better and can accept herself again! Every struggle or problem is wrapped up neatly in bow in 5 minutes.

  -So what was Amon’s motivation again? Daddy issues? He wants to be more powerful than his father? Prove that he’s better? I have no fucking clue. He obviously doesn’t care about the privilege of bending so why should the viewers or any of the underprivileged people in the world.

  -Why make Amon’s whole fucking identity a lie from the start and never once hint at it? Why bother even trying to portray a philosophical conflict you have no intent of actually showing?

  -Why the hell would Korra and Mako randomly burst in and shout ‘AMON IS A LIAR’ and think that would solve anything? Why would anyone believe them with absolutely no evidence but heresay?

  -Asami and Mako’s relationship is resolved…how? She accepts he cheated on her and left her? She doesn’t care anymore? Is she secretly banging the president of cabbage corp? That would make about as much sense as anything else we saw.

  -The triple swerve on Amon’s identity was dumb. He kept a fake paint scar on at all times JUST IN CASE his mask fell off? Why bother even having the mask fall off twice? Just to get a quick ‘WTF’ from your audience before going ‘GOTCHA!’?

  -This also kinda contradicts Tarlock’s whole…everything. Why would he continue his father’s legacy if he hated him so much? He’s not helpless before the hands of fate or something, he could tell what he was doing and choose to keep at it why? Why knowingly fulfill the whims of a man you hate?

  -Oh sweet the terribly cliched lead male x lead female romance rides a-fucking-gain. I guess everyone needs someone to bone down with regardless of whether it matters to the plot or anything.

  -Tarlock suicide attacks his brother because…? Question mark? Why would he suddenly want to kill himself? Why not just incapacitate his brother and jump off?

  -Seriously what the hell was the point of what I just saw? All the struggle meant nothing, no threats were real, there was literally no character development. Everyone is exactly the same as we found them in the beginning, exactly the fucking same. Oh wait, Korra can airbend now, I guess that’s different! Yippe.

  -the world is completely the same. This wasn’t a story it was a sitcom, where thing is perfectly fine and back to normal at the end, it just took us a few extra hours to get there. No difference to the world. This might as well have not happened.

  -Why bother diverting Asami, Bolin and Iroh to a different location for an arbitrary reason, why not just leave the group together for the dramatic revelation? The whole airbase attack had no drama or importance.

  -Oh hey There’s Bumi! He looks crazy and charismatic and he annoys his straight laced brother this oughta be funny! Haha fuck you! You don’t get to see for more than 2 seconds and he says nothing!

  -I am retroactively angry at myself for ever being excited about this thing.

  Good things:

  -Uhhhhh….

  -Bolin got like 5 lines instead of 1? That’s an improvement.

  -General Iroh was badass as hell.

  -I can sleep in later on Saturdays.

  -I don’t have to press a button on my DVR Friday night.

  -Breaking Bad starts in 3 weeks and that’s actually well written.

  -My self esteem about my own writing capability shot up through the roof. If this can be on tv, anything can.

  -The Euro is on in 2 hours and will have way more dramatic tension and character development than spectacular showcase of deus ex machina.

• July 04, 2012 at 7:21 PM, said ...

  MY BANANA CURVES AWAY FROM MY MOUTH!!!

  
  GOD HAS FORSAKEN ME!!!  WHY, GOD...  WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY?!?!?!?!?!?!

  
  
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  July 04, 2012 at 6:54 AM, said ...

  I've been watching Metalocalypse lately and that show i has people dieing in the most burtal ways possible, It's bad but it does serve the metal music theme.

   

   

• July 04, 2012 at 5:50 AM, said ...

  @Dazz one: Dude, this is...

  Anyways, yes, it does matter. Our beliefs inform our decisions/actions and have consequences in the real world.

  
  
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  July 04, 2012 at 4:37 AM, said ...

  Does it really fucking matter?? I don't really know what I am and don't care. I just don't subscribe to any religion.

• July 04, 2012 at 2:14 AM, Declan said ...

  MORE GAME OF THRONES!!!!

  
  
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  July 03, 2012 at 11:55 PM, said ...

  @Cyrus: If you want to continue this discussion, do so on my page. Thanks.

• July 03, 2012 at 11:55 PM, said ...

  @Cyrus: I agree with a great many things you said in your response but I think you are misrepresenting Atheism and stereotyping Atheists (I think that's part of the reason you don't want to be labeled as an Atheist). Atheism is a position on a single issue; do you believe that a God/Gods exists? Atheism is not a philosophy or a world view, it is the byproduct of a philosophy/world view. There are Atheists that do believe in guiding alien races. Many more consider themselves Skeptics. In Skepticism, the time to believe in something is when we have evidence for that thing (most of us do this for 99% of everything in life). This is the best way we have to find the truth.  

  Why you are an Atheist: 

  Atheism, in general, is the lack of belief in God. Allow me to explain, a claim is being made: 

  A God/Gods exists. 

  You either believe that claim or you don't believe that claim. Here are four typical responses to this question(of course, there are more): 

  Yes, I believe that.  

  I don't know. 

  No, I don't believe that. 

  No, God/Gods do not exist. 

  By saying I don't know, you are still rejecting the claim being made. Here is an alternate example: imagine a court room scenario where the claim is "Person G is guilty". If the jury said "I don't know", then the court would rule Person G not guilty. Here are the same responses with their associated positions: 

  Yes, I believe that. (Theism) 

  I don't know. (Atheism)

  No, I don't believe that. (Atheism)

  No, God/Gods do not exist. (Strong Atheism/ Anti theism)

  Degrees of certainty:

  As Penn Jillete said, Agnosticism answers a question of knowledge not belief. By saying your an Atheist, you don't automatically claim absolute certainty that there is no God/Gods. In fact, Atheism, in general, makes no claims. Atheism, at least for skeptics, is a tentative position waiting for evidence. Also, I disagree with your statement that Atheists don't find supernatural claims worthy of study and attention. Skeptics actively want to find out if these supernatural claims are true but continue to find no evidence. 

  Bitter, angry Atheists: 

  I understand why some Athiests are like this. They are often engulfed in extremely religious cultures that consistently push their beliefs on others and belittle those who don't believe. That said, being defensive, angry and full of contempt is not a requirement for Atheism. Neither does one have to actively condemn other people's beliefs. You can believe what you wish to believe but if you want me to share that belief, you have to have good reasons. 

  Bonus Video!!!! 

  
  
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  July 03, 2012 at 4:20 PM, Cyrus said ...

  It's only a matter of time in any given discussion involving agnosticism before the "down-talking expert" commentator archetype shows up. Yes, there are some strong feelings on this matter. Why? I always am reminded of a gay friend of mine who used to get INCENSED over bisexuality, insisting that there was no such thing and people are either gay or straight. He wasn't alone.

  No one defines this character trait like the atheist who absolutely refuses to understand the position of the true agnostic, who refuses to acknowledge that such a position even exists, because he himself has chosen such a rigid (and often rather angry) stance. I mean, who else attacks a person on their own podcast for how they define their beliefs? You can find lots of back up in the history of philosophy and, of course, on the internet, for this popular position, but that doesn't make it so.

  Agnostics (at least in my position) truly don't believe or not believe the EXISTENCE of a god or gods or guiding alien race or whatever, but aren't willing to condemn those who do out of hand either. Only in a proceeding empirically fashion (such as in regarding politics or social engineering) do we regard spiritual life and theories as absolutely not part of the discussion, because there's no other way to advance the discussion and make things better for everyone, and not just the dominant belief-led majority (at any given time).

  As a scientific culture, we're incredibly primitive still. We don't even really understand consciousness. How do we measure the experience of illumination? Do we choose to deny it because there's no empirical evidence suggesting it's real and therefore pay no real attention to it until this definition of proof comes along? You see, I don't. I find it ALL fascinating and completely worthy of attention and study. I just don't necessarily drink the proffered kool-ade either, although I'm willing to face an internal and unmeasurable truth if it comes along and forces me to acknowledge it.

  If I have outright disdain in a spiritual sense, it's towards organized religions, whose evolutions (snicker) you can trace with ease throughout the centuries and it's hard to take but so seriously based on their various inconsistencies. But I disagree with Penn Jillette entirely when he says the best way to become an atheist is to actually read the bible. That's the best way to decide the bible is probably just a book and not sacrosanct in any way, but that's just one group's way of thought-forming god and has nothing to do with whether or not a higher being actually exists any more than Scientology being bullshit proves it either.

  So, if it makes you feel better, define me into a meaningless corner, if it makes you feel better. The difference between us may be minor to you, but it's the defining leap into modern critical thinking to me. Being able to acknowledge how little we know (and how poorly we're even capable of measuring it at that) is how we open ourselves up to whatever else might be out there. Or maybe not. You don't know either so please, try not to explain how sure you are that I'm wrong and wasting my time. Perhaps you can learn to live with the divide between us without belittling me. Sure would make for a better world right now, and that's the only thing that really concerns me.

• July 03, 2012 at 3:28 PM, said ...

  @Driznar: Sandbending is earthbending. For example, Toph used sandbending to create a miniature of Ba Sing Se in Season 3.

  

  
  
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  July 03, 2012 at 12:36 PM, said ...

  I do apologize if someone else has already brought it up, however, I do believe that the sand-benders in Avatar: The Last Air Bender were in fact a form of air bending. It could be argued that they were earth bending the sand to move their transportation. That being said, I'm of the belief that just moving the sand would cause more harm to their craft than a hybrid of both air and sand.

• July 03, 2012 at 10:22 AM, said ...

  I totally agree about the love triangle.  It WAS really well done.  

  About the comparison of Ang and Korra, I appreciate the dichotomy between being more headstrong and bold but not being SPIRITUAL vs. being spiritual but being more timid.  They were almost exact opposites, not to mention Korra couldn't do air until the last ep.

  
  
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  July 03, 2012 at 10:15 AM, said ...

  I literally started watching Korra BECAUSE of this podcast.  I slept on the first Avatar and waited several years to watch everything without waiting.  I couldn't do it with this show because I heard so many great things!!  I just finished the season and thought it was great!  
  
  I DO understand what the complainers meant when they talked about things ending too fast.  However, indeed, this was an amazing story.  I don't know what's gonna happen next.  Given the shows that I know, this feels like Stand Alone Complex.  When I finished the 1st season, I had NO idea where they could go next, but that 2nd season blew me away.  I seriously hope that the next season does the same.  I'm with Cyrus; this was EASILY one of the best seasons in American animation.  I would go further and say animation, PERIOD.

• July 03, 2012 at 7:37 AM, said ...

  
  
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  July 03, 2012 at 6:22 AM, said ...

  Oh, I so wish I could go to Oregen to see Master Pancake, I would have booked tickets to go to Oregen just to see them, but alas, that is the day when Batman comes out. :( 

  I am such an anti-twilighter that I am willing to pay money just to hate twilight. I request, please, please, please, pleassssee let Master Pancake do Spiil Dot Con next year, and do New Moon. :3

• July 03, 2012 at 4:51 AM, said ...

  Here's an even better explanation:

  
  
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  July 03, 2012 at 4:40 AM, said ...

  @defining atheism and agnosticism: Let Penn Jillette elucidate the issue...

• July 03, 2012 at 12:50 AM, kevin miller said ...

  @Kalle

  I can't tell if you're selflessly trying to illuminate this fascinating (and thoroughly difficult to grasp) subject for the benefit of the rest of shit-shovelers.....or if you're looking for a pat on the back.

  
  
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  July 03, 2012 at 12:14 AM, said ...

  Sorry, Cyrus, but agnosticism isn't really a term for belief, it's a gauge on the level of knowledge or the general approach to ascertaining it (although of course belief is typically considered to be a part of knowledge according to the classical definition). "Agnostic" is a more contextual term than "atheist" and it can be used non-theologically; a cosmologist can be/could have been agnostic about string theory while they cannot be atheistic about it. This is pretty much covered in philosophy 101, or at least whatever stage you are introduced to epistemology. Failing to take a course on philosophy, there's the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy with an article about atheism/agnosticism you can check out. Failing that, I'm pretty sure even wikipedia has this topic adequately covered in more easily accessible language.

  Technically you would appear to be an agnostic atheist, since you do not actually know if god exists or not and do not have any means of verifying this one way or the other but lean towards the assumption that he does not exist anyway. Even theists are technically agnostic, since proof of God's existence or lack of it is  epistemologically impossible (arguably some would say, of course). Personally I don't believe in God because I think the burden of proof is left to those who claim his existence, and also that the argument concerning existence of evil has never been sufficiently refuted.

  It's a bit silly responding to this with such indignation when a simple google search or the checking of a dictionary would have shown you to be wrong. Unless there is some kind of weird soccer/football kind of thing going on with the term between Texas and the rest of the world, of course. I don't think that people are trying to tell you what to believe, but that your use of terminology is off. It's a bit like going around saying you love strawberries and getting all angry when people bring you some because all this time you've been mistakenly calling strawberries raspberries. This could have been done more tactfully, of course, and I hope I have succeeded in doing so slightly better than others. 

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