Podcasts - THE LEAGUE OF EXTREMELY ORDINARY GENTLEMEN: Volume 8, Issue 17: Anything Goes

That's right, the LEOG takes the time out to answer your non-subject-specific questions this week. Add to that the always welcome guest appearance by Master Pancake Theater/Red Vs Blue's John Erler, and you've gotcherself a SHOW!

Tags:  leog, leon, cyrus, podcast, spill, spill.com, comics, tv, movies, master pancake, red vs blue

• 
  

  July 27, 2012 at 6:08 AM, said ...

  @Fungusmonkey

  You are the greatest Spider-man fan of all time. Actually with all the amazing spider man bashing on LEOG, Leog has slowly becoming my least favorite. I still have a fun time, but when Spider-man hate is brought up I just get depressed. The Loading Bar is now officially number 1 with ACOCO in second. Still really like the podcast though.

• July 20, 2012 at 6:20 PM, said ...

  You know the whole time I was thinking where have I heard John's voice before. Then he reveals that he's North from Red vs Blue and pretty much jizzed where I stood. After that I could only picture his character North talking and just hanging with the LEOG. I fucking love RVB.

  
  
• 
  

  July 18, 2012 at 12:09 PM, said ...

  Still no mention of Kirk Douglas?

• July 17, 2012 at 4:19 PM, Haze-man said ...

  I'm a Brony, and I don't shove it down people's throats. :(

  
  
• 
  

  July 17, 2012 at 12:42 PM, Matt McClellan said ...

  Dear Fungusmonkey,

  

  Seriously, thank you. Only thing I could possibly add; if anyone wants to see a representation of *actual* aspergers, watch the movie Adam.

• July 17, 2012 at 8:02 AM, Alex Thompson said ...

  35:00 - Rocketeer was awesome.  I couldn't sit through Phantom or The Shadow.

  
  
• 
  

  July 17, 2012 at 7:55 AM, Alex Thompson said ...

  88:00 - *Gives standing ovation to Cyrus for his speech on writer appreciation*

• July 17, 2012 at 7:37 AM, Alex Thompson said ...

  70:00 - Holy crap!!!  I dug that JMS written series, too!  I thought I was the only one!

  
  
• 
  

  July 17, 2012 at 7:11 AM, Alex Thompson said ...

  53:00 - LOL @ the Hungry Man

• July 17, 2012 at 6:56 AM, Alex Thompson said ...

  38:00 - Again, messing with Stargate- you've GONE TOO FAR!!!

  
  
• 
  

  July 17, 2012 at 6:36 AM, Alex Thompson said ...

  19:00 - Okay, you're messing with Manimal... you sir have GONE TOO FAR!!!

  * Though I loved the premise as a kid, I have tried to revisit this show like a decade ago and that show was sooo terrible.  Someone should remake it, though!

• July 17, 2012 at 6:31 AM, Alex Thompson said ...

  13:40 - *in best dramatic internet dude voice* Leave Courtney ALONE!

  
  
• 
  

  July 17, 2012 at 6:30 AM, said ...

  @Fungusmonkey

  Well done sir, well done!

• July 17, 2012 at 6:25 AM, laz said ...

  Choas bull dog anime does have its flaws but there are some good ones out there that fans will love to Surport it.

  
  
• 
  

  July 17, 2012 at 6:18 AM, Alex Thompson said ...

  1:30 - That was comedy gold right there!

• July 17, 2012 at 6:17 AM, said ...

  Boo at having to turn up speakers to listen then turn down quickly not to have bleeding ears due to league laughter

  
  
• 
  

  July 17, 2012 at 6:07 AM, said ...

  @FungusMonkey I hope its new because I don't see how he looks like a half Arabic, an Italian, or a native American.. at all haha

• July 17, 2012 at 5:38 AM, Jon Baley said ...

  Guys, guys, can't we all just agree the best media interpretation of Spider-Man to date is Spectacular Spider-Man?

  
  
• 
  

  July 17, 2012 at 5:35 AM, Jon Baley said ...

  @Gothka13 Hear hear

• July 17, 2012 at 5:17 AM, Fungusmonkey said ...

  Also - Fassbender might be Desmond, might be Altair, might be a completely new character in the Assassin's Creed movie. Either way, they just have a production package set up right now (no studio behind it) so it may/may not happen at all. They haven't revealed whether the film will be following the game storyline, or if they will be doing another character (like they've done with books and comics and other products from Ubi).

  
  
• 
  

  July 17, 2012 at 5:00 AM, Fungusmonkey said ...

  To post my own responses (since - I Bro-love you Brian and Cyrus, but you both make a terrible me):

  Peter Parker doesn't "have Aspergers" in the film, not even remotely. He is often befuddled with high school romance uncomfortableness (as I think we have all been at one point, or I feel bad for you son) leading to some quite good awkward moments in the script that are played (effectively) for laughs, but I feel like you guys are unsure of exactly what people with Aspergers are actually like. It doesn't just mean "someone who's awkward around a girl". It can include that, sure, but that's not what it is in whole. Just like actually having emotions and reeling from the death of a loved one isn't the same as "being emo". For instance, a person with Aspergers would probably not have such a regular chummy relationship with his Aunt and Uncle, or be able to perfectly and concisely argue his point of view at the dinnertable scene with Capt Stacy, or stand up to Flash Thompson three times, or be able to understand or empathize with the many people he comes in daily contact with, or be so funny, or... well, sufficed to say - I think "he has Aspergers" is a defensive insult for people you don't directly understand or like. That's like saying a girl "must be a slut" because she slept with someone besides you.

  Peter also isn't a "dick" to Aunt May at any point in the film. He is wrapped up in his new powers and forgets to pick her up (which, directly after - Uncle Ben comes at him with both barrels even though, as Peter points out, Aunt May made it home just fine on her own, which then directly sets up Peter lashing back at being attacked by Uncle Ben). Then, after Uncle Ben dies, the remaining scenes with them together shows that Peter cares for her (and she for him) but neither of them are coping well with the loss of their "glue" - Uncle Ben. Suddenly, these two people (who, let's remember, are not related) are cast together in a very new dynamic. Aunt May is concerned for Peter, and Peter just wants her to leave him alone and not worry about him (since he is convinced he can handle himself since he has superpowers now but he can't tell her that). He is never malicious, mean, or "dickish" to her thoughout the film. The final scene with them and the eggs was a touching moment - it symbolizes that Peter has come around and realizes that he can't just continue to do his own thing and that he has a responsibility to her as well (keeping perfectly in line with the recurring themes of him maturing from his self-centered vengeance into being a hero and accepting the responsibilities he has). But, y'know - if you want to paint him as a dick because he and Aunt May didn't sit around and eat peach cobbler and espouse their mutual kinship mere weeks/months after Ben's death, you go right ahead with that.

  The conspiracy with his parents is resolved in the terms of the current story arc. Sure, there are more questions to be answered (in the next two films), but we learn the basics of what happened. Richard Parker discovered the decay rate algorithm or whatever and bred the spiders as a test. When Osborn found out, he wanted to use it for less ethical applications and demanded that Parker fall in line. When Parker refused, they threatened to take it from him, going so far as to break into his home and try to steal it. There are hints that Parker knew what was going on at OsCorp (which again - will be fully revealed in the sequel) and just how desperate Osborn was to have it, and hid his research, left Peter with Ben, and left with his wife. We don't learn what happened to them after that point, but the important crux of that backstory is accomplished - we know that OsCorp is dirty and after something else, Connors' guilt about his role in their disappearance and desire to continue that research leads him to take Peter under his wing, Connors also refuses to turn over the research (leading to it being taken from him as well which is the impetus for him injecting himself and becoming the Lizard in the first place). Peter himself doesn't learn that much directly, but he doesn't need to because again - over the course of the film his character arc takes him from thinking solely about himself and what he wants to becoming a hero. He sets aside his quest for answers and his quest for vengeance. He also learns precisely why his father's formula is so dangerous in the wrong hands. There's room for it to expand in future installments, but the primary question was answered - why did his parents leave that night? It's not about having everything neatly handed to you - "oh, here's exactly what happened to them" - it's about using the overarching question as the MacGuffin of the film.

  I agree with Leon wholeheartedly that TAS has problems just like the original Spider-Man films did. However, I disagree with him in that I feel the parts that worked in TAS, reeeeally worked and the parts that didn't work weren't really that big of a deal-breaker. Whereas with the Raimi films, the things that didn't work were things like an unbelievable Peter Parker, and terrible dialog, and cheesy setpieces, and things that sum up to a much worse final product. Whereas I felt that TAS, despite it's flaws (like some poor editing choices), summed up to a pretty damn good film, with a faint taste of "bleh" about it. Not enough to drop it past Full Price, but enough to keep it from being the "definitive" film version of the character and story.

  I also disagree that Raimi showed any love for the character or stories. He wildly misinterpreted the characters, cast them poorly, rewrote or otherwise changed MASSIVELY important details about their lives, and essentially made 3 Sam Raimi films based on Spider-Man. Whereas the challenge with this film was taking those elements of Spidey's origin that Raimi used, and putting them together in an origin story that was more closely respectful to the source material. There wasn't a "blueprint" for him to follow because people didn't want another Raimi film (since that blueprint got stale by the second film). I think he did a competent job of keeping the parts that worked in Spidey's origins, and including the important parts that were previously left out or ignored. The film didn't feel "piecemeal" to me - it had a central story, a central theme, and several recurring themes throughout that culminated in the end, led by some amazing acting by most of the cast. However, like I mentioned, there are some poor editing choices that - had they been included - would have improved the film and cut off a lot of the more nitpicky complaints.

  Cyrus also is incorrect about there being a "MAJOR plotpoint" that was left out. The only things that didn't make it to the final film were some random scenes with Connors family, a small scene where The Lizard tests his gas out on the OsCorp lackey guy after the bridge (which doesn't serve any other purpose than sewing up "what happened to that guy" and the exact same thing we see with the cops later). There aren't "huge pieces" missing, just some smaller bits and pieces that didn't serve the story like they had hoped, or just pimped out the further questions about Peter's parents (which thankfully they cut because they did a good enough job teasing it already).

  Personally, I was fine with Sony taking a heavier hand with the film series. People tend to demonize the "big bad studio" and defend the "humble director" in the previous films, when in actuality most of the problems people have with the previous films were almost all choices made and fought for by Raimi. Sony, on the other hand, is the company that gave us Spectacular Spider-Man, possibly the best cartoon adaptation of the comics to date. You'll understand if I trust the people who wanted to include Venom in a Spider-Man film over the guy who wanted to have a hot female Vulturess (and a Goblin Racer XXXTreme, for that matter). Webb did a very competent job directing (particularly the character scenes) and while I think they should bring in someone else for the sequels, I have no problem with Sony being in charge of the character and franchise. (granted, I wish it was Marvel but that ship sailed a long time ago)

  "With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility" - not a deal breaker for me because the message behind it is absolutely in the film. Uncle Ben never said it in the original comics (it was a Stan Lee narration on the last page), and while that's basically his motto, I don't need that hammered in there clumsily. Sure, I would have liked it if they'd gone full fan-service-mode and tossed the line in there, but they didn't and I didn't mind that much. It's like complaining because the new Superman doesn't include someone saying "Up in the sky! It's a bird! It's a plane!" or "faster than a speeding bullet! More powerful than a locomotive!" etc. In the Superman films, it's gotten to be almost a joke, and I feel like Spider-Man is headed the same way. The theme was there in full effect, without having to crowbar in a line. I think mainly it was that little bit of fanboyishness in all of us that wanted the speech to end with the sweeping music and a dramatic read from Uncle Ben... "because you see Peter... with GREATblahblahblahblah" (end scene). If that's a dealbreaker for you, more power to you.
  
  I also seriously think that you guys should go back and re-read the early issues of Amazing Spider-Man. Peter Parker is not "this really good guy", he's just a guy. A regular guy. Maybe a bit more altruistic than most, but still just a regular guy. He has his moments of pettiness. He's snide to people who deserve it. Even where he himself is concerned, most of the original arcs of the comics are about him fretting that he's turning into some kind of villain or a psychotic person. Wondering about whether he does what he does to help people, or if deep down he just really likes the attention. Wondering if there is even a NEED for Spider-Man, or if he just assumes that so that he can keep doing it. Wondering if maybe JJ Jameson is right about him after all. At one point, (I think it's Mysterio, if I remember correctly) is committing crimes dressed as Spider-Man, and Peter Parker actually starts thinking that he's finally snapped and is committing the crimes in his sleep. He scoffs at all the people around him that used to poke fun at him. He's an outright asshole to Flash Thompson at every turn (even though Flash honestly tries to help him out from time to time). But he grows. He gets better. He develops. He eventually becomes that motto-chest-beating Spider-Man we all know him as, but that's not the way he starts out. I appreciated that they made this film more about his journey towards becoming a hero, instead of just trotting out another paint-by-numbers superhero film. This was much more Batman Begins - focusing more on the WHY than the HOW.

  I'm going to let the "he rips a girl's clothes off" joke slide because I know it's just trying to be funny. Still, dirty pool. Big high five to John Erler for bringing up the "masturbation metaphor" aspect of the previous Spider-Man films.

  Leon is ABSOLUTELY right about your interpretation of Spider-Man being responsible for how you feel about the film. If you like the 70s-80s goofy Spidey (the 'Brave and the Bold' Spidey, to borrow the metaphor), the original Raimi films are right up your alley. If you're a fan of old-school original 60s Spidey, you'll probably like this film. If you like the current lame Spider-Man, you probably won't like this film. If you like the Ultimate Spider-Man (the comic not the godawful cartoon) version, you'll probably like this film. It's all dependent on what your "perfect version" of the character would be.

  Then...sadly... I have to start disagreeing again. Andrew Garfield portrayed the kind of "inside his head" mental process of Spider-Man (who is NOTORIOUS for beating himself up over everything) much better than Tobey "Lemme just cry and whine and scream really high pitched and then look like a beaten puppy dog" Maguire. There wasn't that much "moping". He was detached (again, a common descriptor of Peter Parker) but he didn't drag it on and on. Also, I have no idea where they're getting the "not funny" thing from. The film had me chuckling consistently throughout. There were so many funny asides and little comments and train-of-thought jokes that were true to the character. If anything, I felt they dropped the ball by not having him continue to do that during the big Lizard fight. Sure, he was injured and fighting for his life and trying to avert city-wide disaster, but I would have appreciated a little more humor at the end. It's not Spectacular Spider-Man, but they're there (which is more than I can say for previous attempts...)

  I want to say that I appreciate what Cyrus, and Leon, and Harris are trying to say about what Peter Parker means to them, but I have to add that everything they're pointing out is what Spider-Man BECOMES. He doesn't start out that way. He grows into that. And, if they don't address that in the sequel, I will be just as unimpressed as they seem to be. For instance, the arc Harris is talking about (with him being buried under the machinery, an iconic moment for the series) is like somewhere in the mid #30s of the book (so more than two years worth of comics later) and the reason he is so incensed to get there and save Aunt May is because the reason she needs special medicine is because he got goaded into giving her a blood transfusion when she fell ill from all the stress of being a widow and her new responsibilities (which he blames himself for because he had been ignoring and neglecting her by being Spider-Man), and she was dying of radiation poisoning from his blood. So he had to go get a special isotope (and again, forgive me if I get some of this wrong, it's been a while since I read them) from a scientist and return to administer it before she died. So it was partially his fault she was dying, hence why he refused to let himself be bested at that particular moment. Just saying... context is important.

  YAY LEON! I loved all the Ezekiel stuff (it kind of ba-bump-bump PETERED out) towards the end, and it really looked like they were going somewhere great with his character (which came first? The spider or the radiation?) but they totally lost me once they started in with the rebirth and spider-stingers and weirdness. I would say that particular arc is the DEFINITIVE Aunt May arc, though. That whole story where she uncovers his identity is exactly why Aunt May is awesome. So well done.
  
  Yay Adventure Time! That is such an awesomely weird show. Aw, Cyrus... I can't stay mad at you.

  Also? +1 point for Leon for acknowledging that I would definitely do this in about 16 paragraphs. (had to stretch for it, but close enough) :)

• July 17, 2012 at 1:33 AM, said ...

  I hereby request, very graciously, to have Master Pancake theater to do Spill Dot Con next year, and do New Moon. I am the biggest anti-twilighter you will ever meet and hearing them riff Twilight was like going to Disneyland for me. I had the best time ever at Spill Dot Con, and that was before I entered the talent show. :3

  
  
• 
  

  July 16, 2012 at 10:27 PM, said ...

  Alright you guys, about the Amazing Spider-Man...

  You think Peter Parker is unheroic? Despitethe fact that he stands up for that kid at his school who was being hummiliated by Flash, who then proceeds to kick the shit out of Peter for doing so. So Cyrus says they didn't do the whole 'with great power comes great responsibility'. They do. Uncle Ben tells Peter that he has a moral obligation to do whats right, to help people. Which he does.

  He doesn't grieve for Uncle Ben? What do you think his hunt for Ben's killer was about then? Also he keeps listening to the message Ben left on his phone while he was out looking for Peter on the night of his murder. As he becomes Spider-man he understands the lesson Ben was trying to teach him and gives up his hunt becuase he has an obligation or rather a responsibility to deal with the Lizard, who he helped create.

  For god's sake Peter is not a dick to Aunt May or Uncle Ben. Peter at one point tells Ben that he's been a good father him. When Peter gets mad at Uncle Ben it's because Ben's giving him a speech about how Richard Parker was this great man who always did what was right and lived up to his obligations, even though as Peter points out his parents left him and none of them know why. Yeah a great idol as far as Peter's concerned. Peter doesn't speak to Aunt May very much after Ben's death because he feels guilty and can't face her because it's his fault.

  Maybe you guys should see the film again to notice these things.

• July 16, 2012 at 5:44 PM, said ...

  I just have to say that I'm happy to have finally joined Spill after listening to you guys for over a year. Though I'm a little late on commenting on this week's episode, I really did enjoy it.

  That whole thing about anime lovers thinking the anime they watched is the shit, well, I know from experience why they annoy the hell out of people. Hopefully most people actually grow up after a while, and they realize there are better things to watch!

  Oh, and whoever starting singing "Teenagers" during the Spiderman dicussion: I love you.

  
  
• 
  

  July 16, 2012 at 6:29 AM, Nick Kroboth said ...

  Crap, nevermind, fucked memory. I know it was A game that did that, but it was not Deus Ex. I was wrong. Carry on.

Post Comment